Talk:Augment
Great article. But who is Starros Keniclius and when was he mentioned? 217.233.106.181 19:27, 4 Nov 2004 (CET) *Keniclius was a genetic scientist during the Eugenics Wars. He was mentioned in the Animated Series. http://www.section31.com/epmovies/ani/synopsis/1x7.html, http://www.startrekanimated.com/tas_ep_infinite.html, http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/episodes/tas1.htm. -- Krevaner 22:45, 4 Nov 2004 (CET) What he said. In addition, I'd like to note I'm changing 1992 back to 1993, since that's the date given in "Space Seed" -- In 1993, a group of these young supermen did seize power simultaneously in over 40 nations. The 1992 reference is something else -- Khan Noonien Singh. From 1992 through 1996, absolute ruler of more than a quarter of your world, from Asia through the Middle East. --Steve 04:33, 5 Nov 2004 (CET) ---- Guys, was the term "augment" used in the original series? I didn't see many episodes of it.- B-101 02:33, 11 Nov 2004 (CET) :No, it wasn't, but ENT's Soong arc has established that Augment is the term for the supermen from the Eugenics Wars. --Steve 02:53, 12 Nov 2004 (CET) Did Soong take all the augment embryos that were still on C-12?- B-101 16:20, 16 Nov 2004 (CET) DS9 Should info about Julian Bashir and his four genetically engineered patients be added here? Tyrant 15:23, 29 Jan 2005 (CET)Tyrant : I would say no if the term was used to specifically refer to genetically enhancments related to the Eugenics Wars. Otherwise, the term "Mutant" as used in DS9:"Statistical Probabilities" and "Chrysalis" would be a synonym for Augment. I'm inclined to support the latter route56 01:53, 1 Mar 2005 (GMT) *So, you're saying yes? Anyone opposed before we add them? Tyrant 11:46, 11 Apr 2005 (EDT)Tyrant * He said no - as do I. "Genetic supermen" and "Augments" were specifically used for those created (initially) during the 20th century, so the term is more-or-less period specific. And yes, Bashir and co. were called "Mutants" -- several times. --Gvsualan 14:12, 11 Apr 2005 (EDT) :*He said no if period specific, which ENT debunks. (The term not being in TOS at all if i remember correctly) route56 goes on to say he is inclinded to support the latter, ie - mutant is a synonym for augment. Which is to say he said yes, just the long way around. Furthermore, I think Doctor Bashir, I Presume knits it together for us with the line "for every Doctor Julian Bashir, there is a Khan Noonien Singh waiting in the wings". Tyrant 15:10, 11 Apr 2005 (EDT)Tyrant :*What Tyrant said. Clarifing my comment above, I do not belive the term can be made period specific, not after the Klingon mess. The term "Augmnet" was applied retroactively to Khan and, if not period-specific, would also apply to Bashir as well. ::I'd also note that Bashir himself was contrasted to Khan in DS9: Doctor Bashir, I Presume. route56 04:43, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC) :::You can note that he was contrasted but not that he was the same, which he is not. That said, I don't believe he was contrasted; if I remember correclty, the episode only notes that genetic engineering was outlawed more or less as a result of the Eugenics Wars. --From Andoria with Love 21:45, 11 Sep 2005 (UTC) *I weigh in with Tyrant and Route56, they are definitely a type of augment. They were genetically augmented. Jaf 21:48, 11 Sep 2005 (UTC)Jaf *While I do not completely agree that Bashir, Jack and the others should be labeled as augments (since they obviously were not engineered the same and there is no proof that the term was used to describe all genetically-engineered individuals), I suppose they should be placed here since they were genetically engineered like the augments of the Eugenics Wars. Truth-be-told, I don't really see anything wrong with referencing them here, despite the fact they were never referenced as augments. Also, if you add them, make sure to add the Klingon augments to the list of known augments, as well. (This may or may not include descendents of those Klingon augments, i.e. Kor, Kang and Koloth.) --From Andoria with Love 04:10, 28 Oct 2005 (UTC) **The Klingon desendents issue was also raise about the Klingon augment virus. Jaf 04:14, 28 Oct 2005 (UTC)Jaf date mis-match The caption of Khan and the paragraph below it have two different dates. Which one is correct? — THOR 13:37, 25 Mar 2005 (EST) : The file name is Khansingh2266.jpg, though this site has TOS:Space Seed as taking place in 2267 route56 04:43, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC) Klingons Should the names of Klingon Augments be added to the list of Augments, or will we leave it limited to human Augments? Tyrant 15:42, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)Tyrant 'Augment' vs. 'augment' I have a deep distrust of capitalized words. Can someone explain why it should be Augments, instead of augments? -- Harry ''Talk'' 15:52, 5 Nov 2005 (UTC) :I guess because in this case it is a "proper noun/name" for the small group of people shown (the Augments), not a generic description for everyone that was augmented in some way by someone (an augment)? But then again, I'm still not too sure about this whole "proper noun" issue, perhaps we could revive the discussions here: Memory Alpha talk:Naming conventions? -- Cid Highwind 16:23, 5 Nov 2005 (UTC) All TOS Klingons are Augments? This article states, "A cure was eventually created which halted the virus in the first stage, retaining the changes in appearance but with no enhanced strength, speed, or endurance. This left millions of Klingons without their ridges, an alteration that was even passed on to their children." This means that the ridgeless Klingons seen on TOS are not truly enhanced; they are just descended from the original Klingon Augments. However, all (as far as I can tell) of the named Klingons from TOS and TAS have been categorized into the Augments category. Is this really accurate? 12.217.241.98 15:34, 8 February 2007 (UTC) :Since they were altered as a result of Augment DNA, I would have to say yes... --From Andoria with Love 17:01, 8 February 2007 (UTC) Intelligence This article says their intelligence was double that of normal humans, I can recall the lung efficiency and strength part, but where was the intelligence part stated? KahnNoonienSingh 03:04, 18 March 2007 (UTC) : "We have five times your strength...double your intelligence..." from . --Alan del Beccio 03:17, 18 March 2007 (UTC) A call for the removal of TNG/DS9 info Over a year and a half ago, as you can read in the "DS9" section above, a few people argued that information on Bashir and other genetically-engineered people should be added to the Augment page. Initially, I objected but ultimately agreed that they belonged since they were genetically-engineered, and the assumption was that all genetically-engineered people are considered augments. I no longer agree with this "assumption." I would just like to point out, as Alan did in the discussion above, that the term "Augment" was only used to refer to those superhumans created from DNA genetically-engineered during the 20th century and linked with the Eugenics Wars. The DNA that was used was specifically referred to as "augment DNA". What evidence do we have that the term referred to every single person who was genetically enhanced? The answer: none. Augment DNA was not used on every genetically-enhanced person, only augments. And there are only three groups of people who should qualify as "augments": the 20th century "supermen" (Khan Noonien Singh, Joachim, etc.), the 22nd century Augments (Malik, Persis, etc.), and the Klingon augments (Laneth, Antaak, etc.). Information about all other cases of genetic engineering should be removed. --From Andoria with Love 06:19, 9 June 2007 (UTC) Does anybody have anything to add regarding this? Replies? Comments? Complaints? Threats? Anything? --From Andoria with Love 17:02, 18 June 2007 (UTC) :KAHN WAS STORNGER TAHN DOCTOR BASHIR! LOLOL! -- Captian MKB ::I agree (with Shran, not necessarily with the "Captian"). :) -- Cid Highwind 17:34, 18 June 2007 (UTC) :::STRONGLY DISAGREE with removing the information. The genetic "augmentations" that were used on Bashir and the "Jack Pack" (as they were sometimes referred to), were banned by Earth (and later, the Federation) for the specific reason that they were used to create the "supermen", ie the Augments. The DS9 eps in question make that explicitly clear. It is entirely appropriate to refer to Bashir, et al, as "Augments", as they fit the gerneral definition of the term. - :::: The term "augments" was not associated with Bashir and co, who's existence was based on work to correct defects. Khan and co. were created for an entirely different reason. Therefore, "genetic supermen" and "Augments" were specifically used for those created (initially) during the 20th century, so the term is more-or-less period specific. "Mutants" was the term applied to Bashir and co. -- several times. :::: SO in keeping with the "Bashir is an Augment" argument in mind, are we to say that Chakotay was an "augment" too, because he had a genetic marker for a cognitive disorder suppressed before he was born? --Alan 22:23, 18 June 2007 (UTC)